Scott You never mentioned anything about your water parameters in your Ram tank. From past experience when buying Rams from a pet shop I've had to raise the temperature to around 84 F to keep them healthy, lower the pH to around 6.0 to 6.5 and soft water, hardness under 80ppm. This would work and then feed lots of live foods. Once they got established in my water then they were more apt to take a change a little better. I would then lower the temp to around 80 and have no more problems. Lots of water changes helped too. Hope this helps, too bad you had bad luck. Up north hear in Northern New York, we seem to have alot of good rams coming into the shops and not too much problems after getting them home. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!