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Re: [GSAS-Member] Angels and Discus
Linda-
My theory is: if a fish is skinny feed it a lot and see if it gains weight.
Then if
they get better you can say "good enough." If the fish remain skinny then you
could
worry about internal parasites, like worms or flagellate protozoans. I think
it's
better to not use medicines until you have good reason to, BUT with Discus it
might be
good to treat prophylactically with Metronidazole. That's because most Discus
will be
carrying some kind of flagellate like Hexamita/Spironucleus (or Trichomonas or
Cryptobia) and Metronidazole is very safe to use and it's about the ONLY thing
that
gets rid of these flagellates (high temperature works on some but not others).
But if you find the problem to be that they really don't EAT very much then
the
cause might something else, and I would try treating for gill flukes because
they seem
to be so common and they really stop the fish from eating.
That "Gel-Tek Ultra Cure PX" that Matt Staroscik mentioned has a pretty
good group
of ingredients (as he listed them in his message:Praziquantel, Flubenol, and
Metronidazole). Theoretically it should affect internal worms, flagellates, AND
gill
flukes, so that's not a bad idea. I've used it a little, but not enough to say
that it
works. I can't remember who makes it; Aquatronics or Aquarium Pharmeceuticals,
maybe.It's kind of new.
Lots of people have used Disco-Med in the past and reported good results.
It has a
couple worm medicines in it (including the Levamisol that Susan mentioned).
People add Garlic when they are making their own fish food because its
presence in
the diet discourages worms in the digestive system.
Steev
--- Linda Knapp <linda@bozuk.org> wrote:
> I did a tank cleanup and took out the angel fish this afternoon - I
> am going to try paying much closer attention to the discus food and
> see if I can get them back to a proper weight. I feel bad actually -
> I have never kept discus and although I read a lot and talked to
> people until Steve made the comment about how skinny the discus in
> the picture was I did not realize that my fish where too skinny. They
> are eating well so maybe without the Angels to compete for food they
> will get better.
>
> I would like to get some internal discus medicine on hand though so
> maybe I could arrange to get some from you Susan?
>
> BTW - Jack Wattley's cure for internal parasites is mashed fresh
> garlic with the food every day for a week or so (I have to double
> check) . I may try that..... At least I don't have to worry about
> garlic breath.
>
> Linda
>
> On Oct 19, 2007, at 3:57 PM, SUSAN WELENOFSKY wrote:
>
> > If you fish has internal worms, you could try Levimosole. I have
> > some from when I treated my guppies. You soak their frozen food in
> > it and feed it to them. Even the smallest guppy fry were fine. I
> > have a lot of it as the only way I could find it was to order pig
> > dewormer. Let me know if you want some. It's the same medicine they
> > treat people with too, if they have parasites. In fact, I even used
> > it as I was worried about the aquarium water I got in my mouth from
> > siphoning.
> >
> > Susan
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Matt Staroscik
> > To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat
> > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Angels and Discus
> >
> >
> > Last time I looked in to this, I got "Gel-Tek Ultra Cure PX" for
> > internal
> > parasites.
> >
> > Praziquantel 0.0057%
> > Flubenol 0.03%
> > Metronidazole 0.30%
> >
> > It is supposed to be offered instead of food, but I was feeding
> > fish who
> > wouldn't take it that way so I had to soak their frozen food in
> > it. Sadly it
> > did not save them, I think they just didn't get enough meds from
> > the soak,
> > or I started too late. But if your discus will eat the product it
> > might
> > help.
> >
> > - Matt S.
> >
> > On 10/19/07, Linda Knapp <linda@bozuk.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think I am leaning towards taking the angels out. I guess the real
> >> question is should I treat the discus with something? (assuming the
> >> might have parasites)
> >> Linda
> >>
> >> From my iPhone somewhere or other...
> >> linda@bozuk.org
> >>
> >> On Oct 19, 2007, at 2:48 PM, "SUSAN WELENOFSKY"
> >> <welenofsky@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Angels are more aggressive than discus. They will hog all the food
> >>> leaving the discus little if any.
> >>>
> >>> Susan
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: HIRO TAK
> >>> To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat
> >>> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:07 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Angels and Discus
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I know it probably I am not in the position to give you my
> >>> thought about your C*chlid question.
> >>> But here is what I READ about the mixing of Discus and Angelfish.
> >>>
> >>> Like the fish store guy, the parasite or disease from Angelfish is
> >>> always a concern. Since the Discus is more delicate. But like you
> >>> said, your Angel should be clean.
> >>>
> >>> And another concern is mentioned often is the food. I think the
> >>> Angel would out compete for food. Since Discus is slower and more
> >>> timid than Angels. I would imagine even more so since your Discus
> >>> are wild.
> >>> So it is possible that the Discus is not getting enough food.
> >>>
> >>> Of course, there is always the possibility that the wild Discus
> >>> have some kind of worm or parasite in their gut.
> >>>
> >>> So I think any case keeping Discus and Angels is not a bad idea.
> >>> Especially the Valuable wild Discus probably deserve their own tank
> >>> if you have space.
> >>>
> >>> I am not saying that keeping them together does not work and some
> >>> people say they have no problem but not always seem to work. And
> >>> usually more Discus and few Angels. And bigger Discus and smaller
> >>> Angels.
> >>>
> >>> This is just what I read. And as you know I am just a bigger of
> >>> world of C*chlids.
> >>>
> >>> Hope someone like Steev would answer your parasite/disease
> >>> question.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Linda Knapp <linda@bozuk.org> wrote: I have a couple of young wild
> >>> heckel discus that I got this last
> >>> summer - They are up to about 4" but after Steve's talk I realized
> >>> they are too skinny (Thanks for that talk Steve - I have already
> >>> used
> >>> it! )
> >>>
> >>> They are in a well planted 40 gallon with RAMS and Angels and some
> >>> plecos - Two of the angels have paired off and I plan to remove the
> >>> other angel. The water is at 6.6 PH and temp is 80.
> >>>
> >>> The guy at the fish store claimed that discus and angels should not
> >>> be put together because the angels had some parasite that would
> >>> attack the discus (These angels are all my own bred and raises so I
> >>> find that questionable) He says I should remove all the angels.
> >>>
> >>> I may do that anyway since the breeding pair are hogging the
> >>> tank now
> >>> but are there other reasons I should?
> >>>
> >>> Should I remove the discus to a hospital tank - I have a 10 gallon
> >>> setup I could use to treat them and if so what would I treat them
> >>> for? There are no signs of problems except their being very skinny.
> >>>
> >>> If I remove them to the hospital tank I would probably use salt to
> >>> treat them as well as raise the temp and try to feed them up more.
> >>>
> >>> Any advice??
> >>>
> >>> Linda
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