I've seen these in an LFS here in Edmonton, too. I was told that they are descendants from the red form of A. cacatuoides. At the time I was in there, all of the apistos were spawning like crazy. Needless to say, I bought some - a pair of Rio Mamore. These apistos are very attractive fish when mature, give them a try. Jason Miller Sherwood Park, AB, Can. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!