Re: Wild Hongsloi

[Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise@bewellnet.com>]

Gary,

You have brought up some interesting questions. I don't think I can answer them
completely, but here are some tidbits. The original Rotstrich Apisto was imported
to Germany from Colombia in 1975. Over the next 10 years imports arrived off an
on, apparently the same color population, to keep the Rotstrich in the hobby.
Additionally, hobbyists, mainly in then East Germany and Czechoslovakia, started
concerted campaigns to domesticate this species and developed a spectacular
Rotstrich with unusually brilliant reds, blues, & yellows. Interestingly, the
Rotstrich, even when originally imported, was a much deeper bodied fish than the
type material used by Kullander to describe A. hongsloi. In 1991 Dr. Staeck
reported on A. hongsloi and introduced the Rio Cataniapo form. This Venezuelan
form was more yellow and rarely, if ever, shows the red caudal patch and anal
streak of Rotstrich. Instead these areas are black. This form also does not have
the deep body of Rotstrich. It is more similar to Kullander's type material (from
Colombia). It is a good possibility we are looking at several sibling species -
how many I don't know. I am not even sure that the original Rotstrich is the real
(type locality) A. hongsloi. Although it probably is A. hongsloi, it doesn't
precisely fit the original description of this species. Obviously more collecting
& distribution data is needed.

I imagine that the loss in color from the original Rotstrich is caused by 2
factors. First, the original Rotstrich domestic varieties were developed and
distributed by dedicated hobbyists. Since then commercial operations have taken
over. Because these operations are interested in profit as much as quality, many
substandard specimens have entered the hobby. It is like comparing commercial
Guppies to those sold by Guppy breeders. The difference is like night & day.
Second, I fear that crossing of forms has occurred many times. The females of the
different forms are virtually impossible to separate. When new blood is added to
a colorful domestic strain, breeders usually use the most colorful male and most
robust female. This crossing may dilute the color of the original domestic
population. I'm not sure, but I think that the Colombian rebels & drug cartels
operate out to the area where the Rotstrich originally was exported from. If
true, the area may be too "hot" to collect right now.

As for the problem between the two hobbyists over A. hongsloi, I can empathize
with both sides. One, in good faith, was providing what he was told was (& sold
commercially as) A. hongsloi. Did he know that all A. hongsloi out there were not
Rotstrich? Probably not;  most hobbyists think A. hongsloi = Rotstrich Apisto.
The ASG's Apisto Species List has listed Rotstrich as A. hongsloi (Blue Form) for
10+ years. Their members should have recognized the difference. The other, in
good faith, expected Rotstrich Apistos, not necessarily A. hongsloi, and was
disappointed that the fish were not the Rotstrich. Does the fault lie with the
purchaser or the seller? A bit of both, I guess. Any seller, from my biased (and
it is biased) opinion, should know as much as possible about the fish he keeps.
On the other hand, the buyer should be very specific about what he wants. If I
had been looking for Rotstrich, I would start asking the seller specific
questions:

Does the male have a bright yellow face and sky blue flanks?
Is there a lot of red in the dorsal fin?
Is it a deep bodied (chunky) fish? and most important
Doe it have a broad bright red tail root and red streak along the origin of the
anal fin?

If the seller responds "Yes" to all of the above then he has Rotstrich (or is
lying through his teeth) and I would feel safe in buying them sight unseen. If
they came in different from what I described (the supplier was lying) then I have
a justifiable reason to be angry. If I didn't ask the appropriate questions, and
then received something other than Rotstrich, then I only have myself to blame.
Too little - and at times too much knowledge - on one side is a dangerous thing.

Mike Wise


Frauley/Elson wrote:

> Rotstrich has been in the hobby for a long time, and I assume the German
> and Czech commercial breeders have been trying to select for colourful
> specimens, in much the same way as with veijita. I know rotsrich comes
> from Colombia and Rio Cataniapo comes from just across the border in
> Venezuala, but have there been recent documented collections of these
> fish?
> The German rotstrich I've seen recently seem to be losing the vivid
> red/blue colour contrasts they had 2 or 3 years ago, but I wonder how
> close the superb rotstrich I used to have were to the wild form. I had
> fish just like the Linke photo in about 95-96.
> I find a lot of the macmasteri group fish to be hard to get now, except
> via Germany, as interest has shifted to the exciting new species of the
> Rio Negro/Xingu etc. I know Mike Wise mentioned having guttata, but I
> haven't heard much about recent imports of macmasteri/hoignei/hongsloi
> /veijita or new macmasteri group fish.
> Could any of the readers of German enlighten me?
> Gary
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com.
> For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
> email apisto-request@listbox.com.
> Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!





-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com.
For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
email apisto-request@listbox.com.
Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!