I don't know why some feel the need to shy away from this subject. I agree with others who consider this an enjoyable discussion. We're all adults here and should be able to handle some intelligent discussion of a very pivotal idea. The occurrence of macro-evolution or the lack thereof is very prevalent with regards to our Apistos. It affects how we identify or understand the relation of our fish--whether what we have is really a new species in a chain or whether it is just a variation of a pre-existing species. Whether we go into the examination of a fish with the pre-existing notion that we must fit the fish into our evolutionary model affects how we identify our fishes. I find it interesting that it is the proponents of macro-evolution who have felt it necessary to bring in religion. Those of us capable of offering an intelligent discussion about the occurrence of macro-evolution have yet to mention religion. I have only given reasons why I don't accept evolution and haven't stated any affiliation to an alternative religion from evolution. So far the biggest lack of education or intelligence I have seen comes from the other side. I wonder how well anyone understands the alternatives, or do they just believe in their religion of evolution because that is all they have taken the time to study? I have studied evolution in-depth and at length and find no merit in it. Most of what has been offered in favor of macro-evolution has been devoid of substance or evidence in favor, but rather has simply attacked alternative views with simplistic dogma. I don't agree with the ideas of macro-evolution for many well-thought-out reasons and therefor differ in my opinions of what constitutes the identification of a new species. I am happy to discuss with others who can behave like adults the logic of my views. If you're not interested in this subject, there are other threads and you don't have to read this one. If you are interested, whether as a contributor or observer, you're free to participate. Regards all, Zack Wilson losing more and more respect for Ph.D's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, email@example.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email firstname.lastname@example.org.