Re: Wardley Complete Remedy? (kind of long) :(

["David A. Youngker" <nestor10@mindspring.com>]

From: Sherry Bunch
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:54 PM


> I just announced a few days ago that I had finally gotten the Blue
> Rams I had been waiting for so long on. Now I hope someone
> can help me on a problem with them.
>
> One of the six started showing signs of heavy breathing with
> swollen gills soon after acclimation to my tank, while the others
> seemed fine...The sick one lasted until this morning, almost
> exactly a week since I'd gotten them. Now a few more are
> beginning to breathe heavily also.
>
> ...They are currently in a 10gal. w/ 4 small zebra danios. The
> danios are showing no signs of distress...
>
> I asked my LFS about the possibility of gill flukes a few days
> before the first one died...I can't think of anything else that
> might be causing this as they show no other signs and it
> seems to be contagious...

This malady seems quite common to Rams and is difficult to attribute to a
single cause.

My guess is that once the first Ram died, curiosity would've lead you to an
examination of the gill area. Flukes may be difficult to see with the naked
eye (for some people, anyway), but are readily apparent with even the
slightest magnification. Things like protozoan infections are another
matter.

Another theory I've heard is that it may be a response to bacterial
exposure, most commonly associated with too dense a shipping population,
while a third considers it a delayed response to elevated ammonia levels
under the same conditions. My thoughts are that any type of "ammonia burn"
or wide-spread bacterial exposure would not be so delayed and that more of
the population would immediately display symptoms, rather than one or two
fish at a time - especially once they were placed in a clean environment.

So my vote usually goes toward some sort of protist...

> ...Now, to the subject. All I have on hand for tonight is "Wardley
> Complete Remedy". It claims to be good for external parasites,
> fungi, and bacteria. The only listed ingredient is sodium chlorite.
> I says on the bottle that this is not a salt solution, but an oxidant.
> Would this work for gill flukes? Has anyone had any experience
> with it?...

From: Bob Dixon
Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 12:53 AM

BD>  If it is sodium chloriTe and not sodium chloriDe, then it is
BD>  not a salt solution in the sense of a table salt solution.
BD>  There are lots of salts and this is still one of them.  My
BD>  chemistry is kinda weak here, but I'd trust that it oxidizes
BD>  the same way peroxide does in human cuts, and
BD>  becomes NaCl (common salt) in the process.

From: Mike Wise
Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 10:18 AM

MW>  First of all Sodium Chlorite is an oxidant. It is very similar
MW>  to common household chlorine bleach (5% sodium
MW>  hypochlorite). The chlorine works the same way as oxygen
MW>  in sterilizing things. This wouldn't be my first choice for gill
MW>  parasites or ich.

Both of these guys are pretty much right on the mark concerning the
"Complete Remedy". And like peroxide, I tend to use it as a general
antiseptic rather than a real "cure". It's really handy for things like
scrapes and open wounds, etc., as with fish recovering from dashing into
something or having too serious a disagreement over "property" or "breeding"
rights. I've used it on everything from Paradisefish to Dicrossus and have
never experienced any adverse reactions.

Since you've discovered ich to be a problem as well (which most likely
gained enough of a foothold on the weakened Rams to spread to the Zebras),
I'd certainly cast my vote in Mike's direction when he states

MW>  If they were my fish I would use the old stand by of
MW>  Malachite Green with Formalin  (formaldehyde) in a bare
MW>  tank. There are still some manufacturers who supply this
MW>  combination commercially or you can blend it yourself (1
MW>  drop/gal MG & 2 drops/gal Formaldehyde). Any one who
MW>  uses formaldehyde should be careful about not getting a
MW>  lot on your skin since it is a know carcinogen.

This would be your best bet for the "double whammy" inflicted here.

Wardley's "Ick Away" is a readily-available source of malachite green.
Unfortunately, I tend to shy away from formalin/formaldehyde (personal
preference only - not a recommendation against it), so I can't supply a
source. Formaldehyde isn't listed as an ingredient in "Ick Away".

An article in FAMA about six months or so back, concerning new treatment
trials for Ich, stated that there is a growing movement to remove malachite
green from the market also - for the same carcinogenic concerns...

-Y-

David A. Youngker
nestor10@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~nestor10





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